St Annes Public House

Did Virgil read Isaiah?

Pieces from Virgil’s famous poem, Eclogues IV.

Constantine, Augustine and Dante all believed that this was Virgil’s messianic prophecy, written in 37 B.C.

Pollio

…”Justice returns, returns old Saturn’s reign,
With a new breed of men sent down from heaven.
Only do thou, at the boy’s birth in whom
The iron shall cease, the golden race arise,

Apollo reigns. And in thy consulate,
This glorious age, O Pollio, shall begin,

Of our old wickedness, once done away,
Shall free the earth from never-ceasing fear.
He shall receive the life of gods, and see
Heroes with gods commingling, and himself
Be seen of them, and with his father’s worth
Reign o’er a world at peace. For thee, O boy,
First shall the earth, untilled, pour freely forth
Her childish gifts, the gadding ivy-spray
With foxglove and Egyptian bean-flower mixed,
And laughing-eyed acanthus. Of themselves,
Untended, will the she-goats then bring home
Their udders swollen with milk, while flocks afield
Shall of the monstrous lion have no fear.
Thy very cradle shall pour forth for thee
Caressing flowers. The serpent too shall die,
Die shall the treacherous poison-plant, and far
And wide Assyrian spices spring.

But soon
As thou hast skill to read of heroes’ fame,
And of thy father’s deeds, and inly learn
What virtue is, the plain by slow degrees
With waving corn-crops shall to golden grow,
From the wild briar shall hang the blushing grape,
And stubborn oaks sweat honey-dew. Nathless
Yet shall there lurk within of ancient wrong
Some traces, bidding tempt the deep with ships,
Gird towns with walls, with furrows cleave the earth.
Therewith a second Tiphys shall there be,
Her hero-freight a second Argo bear;
New wars too shall arise, and once again
Some great Achilles to some Troy be sent.
Then, when the mellowing years have made thee man,
No more shall mariner sail, nor pine-tree bark
Ply traffic on the sea, but every land
Shall all things bear alike: the glebe no more
Shall feel the harrow’s grip, nor vine the hook;
The sturdy ploughman shall loose yoke from steer,

O baby-boy! ten months of weariness
For thee she bore: O baby-boy, begin!
For him, on whom his parents have not smiled,
Gods deem not worthy of their board or bed.”

What do you think?  Did Virgil read Isaiah?  Did he borrow from the Hebrews to envision a Roman golden age?  Or did he actually end up writing a prophecy about the Boy to be born?  I will comment on your comments if you’re interested.

Consider these passages from the prophets:  Is. 65: 24,25  Is. 2:2-6 Micah 4:1-3 and any other prophecies you remember of Jesus’ birth like being born in a lowly place like Bethlehem etc.

Pabst:  Have you been reading James Jordan again?

Porter:  Of course.

Pabst:  Once you start taking his hermeneutic you’ll start pulling rabbits out of passages..

Porter:  Oh, that’s ridiculous.  Most folks who say that don’t understand just how biblically grounded Jordan’s observations are on the typology of the Bible.  Plus, I learned about Ezek. 47 from Doug Wilson not Jordan.

Pabst:  But doesn’t every text have to have one meaning, one horizon, one “point?”

Porter:  Have you read how Jesus and the apostles interpret with the NT?

Pabst:  Yeah, they do typology but we’re supposed to follow a rationalistic, scientific, systematic modern type of exegesis..  Ooops. Did I say that?  They were apostles, we’re not apostles.

Porter:  They were Hebrews Pabst.  They were more poetic and they understood the way  literature works.  They understood that texts have layers.. Deep layers of 3d beauty and shape, contours of texture and beauty.  The Bible uses tons of poetic language that refers to literal events but whose language is sacramental and therefore speaks to all situations.  This is very unlike much modern theology which guts the layers and therefore its application and depth is shallow, pragmatic and trite.

Many modern Christians do not like this or are unaware.  Like it or not, the Bible is full of symbolism and Jesus/Apostles interpreted the Bible this way.  What I’ve told you about Ezek. 47 is foreign to us because we’re a long way from the “grid” or system of poetic theology.  We’re moderns.  We know we get sick from itty-bitty bits called germs and we break everything down to atoms and points–But the Bible is grand literature–Compare Tolkein and a biology textbook.  Biology textbooks can be great and wonderful, but the problem comes when we start doing theology and preaching like that.  The whole world is broken down to scientifically measurable bits in the western and non-Hebraic mind.  Brother John MacArthur’s theology was shaped by this mindset with his affinity towards overly scrupulous word studies but then being totally lost with passages like Ezekiel 1.  I remember him specifically saying on tape that he did not know what was going on there in that passage.  You really have to understand Hebrew symbolism to interpret Ezek. 1.  John MacArthur lacked the theology of typology strong in some reformed circles.

Porter continuing:  Metaphor is uncomfortable for the scientific age.  Evangelicals trained in conservative seminaries in the early, mid, and most of the late twentieth century were trained in rationalistic and otherwise one dimensional non-symbolic systematic theology.

Pabst:  Dude.  Can’t we just be “panmillennialists?”  It’s all gonna pan out in the end.

Porter:  No.  That’s a lazy anti-intellectualism.  It’s a failure to take God’s Word seriously.  God calls us to use our brains and study–hard.

The Left Behind books and other poor interpretations of Revelation have affected how the church views the world and theology.  But when the Bible, or a really good story places things in that story, you know the author will bring that thing or person back in a complete way at the end of the story.   The various “bits” of the Bible fit together holistically, like all good lit.

God says to Abraham that his seed will be as the stars in the sky and the sand on the shore, this is a gospel promise that God will bring in these sons of Abraham in a multitude that cannot be counted.

Pabst:  But didn’t Jesus say that narrow is the path to life, and few find it?

Porter:  Yes and He meant that narrow is the path that Jews would find in the midst of that apostate generation in the first century.  He’s not talking about a blanket statement on the ratio of saved to unsaved in all space-time history.

Porter:  Well, this has been fun.  It’s time for me to go and be with my wife.

Amill is better than dispensationalism.. It’s progress, but it’s incomplete at best, and at worse it completely misses the important thrust of new creation because of Christ’s resurrection.  It is important.  People do live differently depending on how consistent they are with living these theologies out.  If one believes that the earth will be renewed and that the nations collectively, (not head-for-head, Hell is real) will be transformed they become more focused on taking dominion here, and not retreating.

Consistent amills have a poor theology of dominion because what really matters is “up in heaven when we die” and not working the gospel out for our future progeny here and now.  If we’re going to be around here for many many more generations as postmills believe, then one begins to focus on building a culture now, in the physical present.  This is really significant, and puts a whole new light on those premill gospel hymns that make everybody want to just die with this woeful world and get to heaven.

Pabst, can I give you some passages to look up for reflection?

“Proof texts” for post-mill theology:

Ps. 66:4, 67, 86:9, 72:8-11 Daniel 2:35 …”But the stone (Jesus) that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.”  V.44 says, “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.”

*Notice how the angel Gabriel quotes this verse and others just like it in his address to Mary about Jesus’ kingdom-Luke 1:33.  This kingdom is on earth, not merely up in heaven where it only affects the righteous in their hearts.  It is brought in by the Messiah’s advent and continued in the sending of the Holy Spirit in and through the Church.

“Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Your possession.” Psalm 2:8

Pabst:  This blue ribbon beer is gross, I’m switching to the Porter.

Continued..

Pabst Blue Ribbon (Amillennial) beer said to Black Butte Porter (Postmillennial):

“But Hoekma said that Post-mill theology..”

“Ah..” Porter said, “have you ever read any postmill theologians?  Or do you get your understanding of postmill from amill guys?”

Pabst:  Uh… well no.  but I’m going to.  Porter:  Good.

Porter:

Amill folks, I believe, will never have a satisfactory answer to texts like this:

Is. 65:20 …”For the youth will die at the age of one hundred and the one who does not reach the age of one hundred will be thought accursed.”  This is in a passage describing the new heavens and the new earth!  Death is still happening in an age when Isaiah describes it as after the creation of the new heavens and earth.  Notice those words, “new earth.”  There is not going to be merely a perfect heaven but destroyed earth in the end, but new heavens and new earth joined in perfect new creation.  Death will obviously be completely abolished and destroyed in the end, at the final second coming.

You are familiar with the important categories of creation, fall, redemption, but that’s not complete without the Bible’s end goal– new creation.  Creation to new creation.. That is as clear as it gets when you compare the garden imagery with Gen 1-3 and Rev 21,22.  A part of what that means is just as people lived very long in the early parts of history so people will reverse back to that by living longer in an advanced age of blessing on earth–ref above verse Is. 65:20.

Notice in Ezekiel 47:1-12 that the period of prosperity for the gospel is gradual..  Ezek. is a classic high symbolism Jewish theologian but don’t get lost with it.  The water from the Temple is the blessing, the life bringing “irrigation” to the desert of the world.  First, the water reaches the ankles v.3.  Then, the knees v.4.  In v. 8 this water actually flows into the “sea,” (a classic and broadly held metaphor for the gentiles) making them, “fresh.”  There’s even a verse on fishing v. 10–not a frequently used ref. for heaven, typically defined.  But this is a ref. to Jesus’ making miracles with his large catches of fish in the gospels–John 21:6.  The inauguration of the kingdom came with this great Fisher of men.  Now, if you’re skeptical–shame on you.. 

Pabst:  But surely Ezekiel was talking about some blessing to come in the near Israelite future at that time..

Porter:  But it was said of Jesus when speaking to his disciples that, “beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.”  The OT texts find ultimate fulfillment in the kingdom of the Lord Jesus.

Porter:  Look at v. 12 in Ezek. 47 which is a crystal clear referent for Rev. 22:2.  New life, new creation for the world, that came gradually through the Holy Spirit’s work in and through the Temple–the Church.